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Full Transcript

Michael Balchan 00:00:00

Anthony, I knew it was going to be you. I'm like, Anthony's going to set the pace car. He's always first. Brian, good to see you. Timo, great to see you. Coach K, what up? The one and only Coach K. Nice. If you know another one, you are mistaken. Stephanie, good to see you. Julia, great to see you. Fired up. Welcome, everybody. Heroic Coach, Luminary guest faculty session, coaching excellence. Wendi Pillars, award-winning lifelong educator, author of "Visual Impact." If you have seen some of Wendi's posts on Heroic Social, you've seen her take a lot of the wisdom from Philosopher's Notes, from the coach training program, from one-on-one classes, and to create these rich, beautiful, visual notes. So we were so inspired by the way that Wendi approaches that process, uses creativity for inspiration, for art, for memory, for all of those things, and she teaches it to others. So we were so excited to bring her here to have her hopefully help us unlock a little bit of our creative wisdom as we seek to be great coaches, leaders, parents, et cetera. So Wendi, fired up. Welcome.

Wendi Pillars 00:01:12

Oh my gosh. I'm so excited, everyone. I hope that you have something to write with and write on. So it can be a sticky note or a pen, pencil, nothing fancy, but bring that with you today.

Michael Balchan 00:01:26

Beautiful. So give us the quick hero's journey.

Wendi Pillars 00:01:32

The hero's journey. So I, as far as using visuals, we'll keep it narrowed down. I started using visuals way back in the day before it was ever a thing. I used to teach language learners before the internet was a thing. So, it was really easy to, when they encountered a word or a concept that was unfamiliar to them, it's really hard to explain a concept in English to somebody who doesn't understand English yet. So I would create quick sketches on the board or on a piece of paper, and they would get it, and we could move on. But it also served as a fun piece of humor to insert. So we had fun doing this, and that's when I realized, huh, this is pretty cool. But then I was the one that was doing the drawing, and I realized, like one day, my assistant principal came into my classroom. He kept popping his head into my classroom at the end of the day, and I said, "What are you doing?" He said, "Well, I just want to see what you taught today," because I'd have this whole whiteboard full of drawings and sketches about the content, and he loved it. But then I started thinking, you know what? I'm doing all the work, and my brain is tired at the end of the day. So if my brain is tired, then I need to teach the kids how to do this. So I started teaching students how to create their own sketches so that I could save my own brain, basically. But from there, then I started getting invited to conferences, and I would sketch on those big boards for conferences, capturing what the speakers were saying, and so it just blossomed from there. And then I got invited to write a book about it, and I thought that it was a hoax. I thought it was a joke because somebody called me at school, and they're like, "Can you write a book about this?" And I was like, "Uh, maybe. I've got to talk to a friend of mine." And it was W. W. Norton, and I was not aware of this publisher, but I realized they were legit, so that's when my first book came out. And then as I was writing it, it was a lot of text-based around the neural science behind it and examples, and in my mind, I was like, "I need to actually walk my talk and sketch this." So that set up the stage for my second book. And I teach teachers how to use this. I teach my students how to use this from grades kindergarten to adults. So hopefully, I can help you guys out today and think about a new way for coaching.

Michael Balchan 00:04:13

I love it. Where do you start?

Wendi Pillars 00:04:16

Where do I start? I'm going to ask you guys to... Let's try something. I'm going to ask you guys to, first of all, write down the word resilience, and you can write it any way you want to, and then sketch what that means, or sketch a representation of resilience. And we'll take 60 seconds. Not long. I'll set a timer. And you can think about how it connects to you. There's no right or wrong answer. All right, 20 seconds. The countdown ten, five, four, three, two, one. Find a good stopping point. There you go. And I'm going to ask, if you can, I would like you to hold up your sketch to the camera so we can take a look. So can we go on gallery view here? Hold it up. And then would anybody like to jump in really quickly and share what you sketched? A little bit behind your sketch. Let's see. Everyone is different, which is very cool. Does anybody want to jump in, share?

Timothy Shaw (Timo) 00:06:01

I'll share, Wendi. My name's Timo. I started with just a simple sketch of pushing a wall, and I thought, "Well, that's interesting, but that's not really the full image." And then what I started to do was I started to draw me on my bicycle. I had an accident a couple of weeks ago where I was riding my bike, and I went around a corner, and my front wheel slipped out because there was just some sand on the road. So I went down and injured myself some. And I basically got back up and kept going right after. Yeah. So I was going to draw three frames, me with the bike on the ground, and me on the ground, and then me back up and on my bike again afterwards.

Wendi Pillars 00:06:39

That's awesome. You have a whole story. I'm sorry you fell, and I'm glad you got up and kept riding, but you have a whole story there, and that was 60 seconds. Oh, my gosh. You're like the poster child. Thank you for sharing that. All right. Well, I know that was quick, but what I loved seeing was that everyone's was different, and this is one of my absolute favorite things about the visual note-taking in class or with people, is that they can get the same input, the same exact input, and come up with wildly different views and perspectives. And for me, that's provided super important and valuable insights into people that I'm coaching, kids that I'm teaching, adults that I'm teaching, and it takes 60 seconds, but if I had said, "Hey, you know what resilience is, right?" Somebody would give me a definition, and you could say, "It's bending without breaking," or something like that, and we would move on, but I would not have the richness of a story like Tim just provided for us. So asking your client, maybe at the beginning of a session or maybe in the middle of a session, maybe there's a word that keeps popping up in the conversation, and if you're listening, I mean, we speak visually all the time, right? Like, "Oh, I'm up against a wall. My head is swimming. I feel like I am carrying the weight of the world." So people are saying things like this in a coaching session. But if you said, "Hey, what does that look like? Sketch that. Are you carrying a backpack full of things? And can you label them?" Maybe you draw squares and circles, but you put a label on them, and then you say, "Okay, it's on the paper in front of you, and you can kind of manipulate it." So a lot of times what I found... Michael, stop me because I feel like I could just ramble on about this, so you want to guide me? But one of the big things that's really effective about this is that if you have a simple sheet of paper and you ask the client to sketch, or you're sketching, it takes the problem away from the person,

Michael Balchan 00:09:01

and it puts it onto paper where- I think one of the most valuable things that I've seen too is that it creates a sort of distance from that problem, and so you can better view it, maybe manipulate it, divide it, organize it, see where your controllables are, et cetera. So it takes that swirl. Sometimes you're inside of the issue or that problem so deeply that you can't see it, but when you just slow down and you give yourself permission, or you give your client permission to just take 60 seconds and say, "Hey, what does that look like?" It can really shift the conversation. Mm-hmm. So then how do we approach that process of, okay, we jumped in, we did it. How do we get better at thinking visually, at inviting visual thinking from other people? And it seems like it's a composition of several different skills at once. So if we're using creative visualization and trying to think about that, how do we sharpen that tool?

Wendi Pillars 00:10:09

It's really about listening. So if I am, when I'm with a client or when I'm planning out something with a student, a lot of times I work with high school students, a lot of times I'm coaching them too. So we get together, and we might create kind of like a vision plan, kind of like a forward future thinking plan. But when I sit down with them, I'm listening, number one, for any of that visual speaking that I just mentioned. Are there repeated phrases? Are there ideas that need to be organized? Are there things that they keep circling back to or express frustration with? Those are things that I would listen for and maybe sketch out myself. I could also ask them to create some kind of representation. But I use stick figures, and I use very rudimentary drawings because I don't want it to be polished. I don't want it to be perfect. I want it to be messy, because that also invites that other person to come in and join and say, "No, it's not like this. This is what I want it to be," or, "This is what I'm thinking." And that, to me, is gold. The other day, like about two weeks ago, I was with a good friend of mine, and we were out. We did the proverbial thinking on a napkin. He was stuck in a constant mental process about this endeavor that he wants to open up, this new entrepreneurial business. And he said, "I have been thinking about this for 20 years, and I don't know where to start." And I stole a napkin from behind the bar and got a pen, and I just started sketching out what I heard him say. I said, "Just tell me about it. Tell me about it." And I would sketch something, and I would write words, but arrows are really important. They show flow. They show process. They show that organization and connection between ideas is very... That's critical because a lot of times people have different ideas, and once they see that connection, they're like, "Oh, that makes more sense," or, "Hmm, no, this is where the gap is." So an absence of something is also data. But I do not promote being pretty. I promote the process over the pretty, being useful over the pretty. And you can, like I mentioned earlier, you can draw a square and put a label on it, and that is a visual. It holds that concept for the people. So I think by just breaking that ice and saying, "Here, here's the pen. Can you just sketch this representation for me?" And I'm not judging. Here, my phrase that I will use is, "Tell me more." I will never judge a student's drawing because they have wiped me away with their insights based on what I think might look like an absolute scribble. But the story that they can come up with and tell me versus if I ask them to write it out in words is mind-bending. So give them a pen, say, "Hey, we're going to do this together," and there's a collaborative effort. So I'll stop there.

Michael Balchan 00:13:50

I love that some of the phrases you've used are this representation, right? We had a great session with, oh, I can't remember the name, but we were talking about the importance of understanding what the word means. I think it was Michael Neal, but understanding when you were talking with a client, working with a client, but using a certain word, what does that mean? What do you mean by that? I want to make sure I really get it, because we use these words that convey concepts. They're great tools, and yet they don't always take the entirety of the information that's in my head associated with that word that I'm using it for, that I want the other person to understand, and different levels of depth with different kind of sets. Yeah. But we're communicating these ideas with blunt instruments the best that we can, and the importance of really slowing down and understanding what do you mean by that word? I have a sense of what it is, but I'd like to understand it from you. And then introducing the visual element, right? It's like at the end of the day, this is about some concept, some representation, something inside that we're trying to convey to somebody else. And where words might fail or give us a partial perspective, the visual representation, regardless of what it is, is a way to try and enter in and understand what do you mean by this? How is this coming across to you? And expose information. So I love that emphasis on representation, right? There is no right answer. There's no wrong answer. It's about communication and dialogue. The-

Wendi Pillars 00:15:17

Wait.

Michael Balchan 00:15:18

Go for it.

Wendi Pillars 00:15:19

Okay. You also hit on a really important point. It slows things down, and I think a lot of times we just feel so rushed because we want to get everything fit in, or we want to get to a certain point. But it's not our agenda, is it, when we're with a client? So I think slowing down is super important. But yeah, for them to have a word that they constantly hear, maybe it's something that we say that they're not really interpreting the way we assume them to be. By doing a simple sketch, it erases assumptions, right? And it's like, "Oh, that's what you meant. Oh my gosh." Right? When I worked with language learners, that was very obvious. Like, "Oh my gosh, that's what you think I'm saying? Oh no, no wonder you're confused." So yeah, I think slowing down and then just giving permission, because I think adults, the first thing, they'll say, "I can't draw. I can't draw." And you're like, "You know what? You can definitely physically draw. Here's a pen. Draw a circle. Draw two dots and three different shapes of lines. A semicircle up, a semicircle down, and a straight line across. You have three different faces, three different emotions. That's all I need you to do today." I also am not hesitant to... I brought this. This is an example of some student work we are doing. I do heroic strategies.

Michael Balchan 00:17:00

Is that The Little Prince?

Wendi Pillars 00:17:03

No, it's an elephant.

Michael Balchan 00:17:06

An elephant inside a boa constrictor was The Little Prince's first drawing.

Wendi Pillars 00:17:10

Oh.

Michael Balchan 00:17:10

But all the adults thought it just looked like a hat.

Wendi Pillars 00:17:13

Oh, no, that's right. I forgot about it. Oh my gosh, that's a perfect example.

Michael Balchan 00:17:13

Went with a Halloween theme. For s-

Wendi Pillars 00:17:15

I saw that. Tell me more.

Michael Balchan 00:17:18

For some reason, well, a jack-o-lantern came to mind. I started to draw the eyes and then I was like, what about the eyes of the pumpkin or jack-o-lantern? So drew that and was thinking that somehow relates to tackle, and then another pair of eyes I had started drawing before that turned into a ghost for they can't see.

Wendi Pillars 00:17:39

Oh, awesome. Yeah.

Michael Balchan 00:17:41

And then the circle was a spiral. But, yeah, Halloween, It was fun to choose that theme and then draw within that. So...

Wendi Pillars 00:17:50

Okay. And it was just random. You don't really know what tapped into your brain to do that? I love it, though.

Michael Balchan 00:18:00

For drawing, I think as a kid, I drew a lot of jack-o-lanterns. Halloween was a time of drawing a lot of ghost, jack pumpkins. Maybe a little callback to that of when did I last- Okay. Yeah ... what was I drawing?

Wendi Pillars 00:18:17

Yeah. The first day of fall. That's perfect. So we got the pumpkins, but I love the idea, the ghost and not being seen. Oh. Or I can't see my way through. Yes. Okay. So you're- Fun ... exciting. I love it. Thank you for sharing and being a volunteer for that. Okay. So yeah, this is what I really love. So it's really about noticing the imagery in sign language. So I would challenge you guys to, as you go through your days, if you're listening to the news or you're listening to, like I mentioned earlier, your family members, clients, anybody at work talking, you're like, "Huh." She said, "Oh, I see." Or, "Oh, I can see where that comes from," or something like that, is indicative of that visual piece. So I think that, hopefully, this shows that drawing demands attention. So that's definitely something to practice. But also that selection piece, because you have to filter out, gosh, I don't want to spend my whole coaching session doing this, so I have to be pretty selective. The visuals will externalize that problem, and again, that's pretty valuable for a lot of people just to get those ideas out. Like Michael, you mentioned just getting that, trying to filter through. And then I also think, did anybody put something that maybe included an assumption of what I was doing? Like any type of assumption? I did. You did? Tell me more.

Michael Balchan 00:20:03

Yeah. I drew a little speech, a little thought bubble up here that's got at symbols and exclamation points and stuff that you were frustrated-

Wendi Pillars 00:20:19

Oh

Michael Balchan 00:20:19

... and angry. So my assumption was that this was not a pleasurable experience for you.

Wendi Pillars 00:20:26

Yeah. Okay.

Michael Balchan 00:20:26

There's like a little man with a heavy load. They're carrying in circles around lots of different options, and they're not happy about it.

Wendi Pillars 00:20:35

That's so cool. Yes. No, absolutely representative. Perfect. So you included, those are three different visual pieces of language in that very short little verbal expression that I gave you guys. So you took a lot out of that, and that's pretty impressive. And you know what?

Michael Balchan 00:20:55

Sorry for the assumptions.

Wendi Pillars 00:20:57

No, that was perfect. So yeah, we do want to check assumptions. So, or maybe there's a metaphor that comes to mind that, oh man, I really know how to draw this award-winning lighthouse, but my client has the pen in hand and they draw a really very rudimentary bridge, for example. You have to hold back and say, "You know what? I'm going to let the client do this. Would you like to represent it?" I would always give them the invitation to do it themselves. I just think that the other piece that goes with this is that when you create the sketch, it generates a better question. So I just want to piggyback on the drawing that you just did or the representation you just did, and I would like for you to create a question that goes with it. Maybe a follow-up question, a clarifying question, something that you could then ask based on what you heard. Maybe it's something like, if you drew a wall, for example. You could say, "Where is an opening? Where would you like an opening to be? Do you want an opening? Do you need something to help you avoid the wall?" Maybe what are you carrying that doesn't belong to you? I mentioned, what is one thing you could set down? Or what keeps you bringing back to that same place? Where could you interrupt that circle? Which item needs attention first? Okay, and by doing that, that is something that you would, if you sketch something out, and that's something that you recognize or notice, and then you could pose it to provide an opportunity for your client. And you ask them that question, "Hey, look at my sketch that I made." And then ask the question. They can say, "Oh, no, that's not what I meant," or, "Wow. I didn't realize that I had said that." That's another thing that's pretty common if there's repeatable words or repeated words or phrases that come up and they don't recognize that they are saying that or that that is coming out so much. So bringing an awareness to their speech is also another piece of valuable data. And then if anybody wants to share their question, they can share it in the chat or grab the mic. I think words like stuck or circling or carrying or buried or at a crossroads, that's all data. That's all really good data. Everyone put their question in. We'll read them out. Put them in the chat. Which thread would you like to explore first? Okay. Didn't have my chat up. I'm sorry, y'all. My bad. Is the disorientation coming from what you're carrying or the choices you're alternating between? Which thread would you like to explore first? Yeah, like if it was a knot or a rope. And then while folks are... Oh, there you go, some of your questions. What one thing can you take off your shoulders to ease the load?

Michael Balchan 00:25:56

Wendi, as questions continue to come in, in terms of connected to the drawing, you mentioned you drawing it as the coach or as the teacher, inviting the client or student to draw, and then bringing it back into the conversation, "Hey, I drew this. Is this right?" There's a question I have from this. How do you think about the right person to be doing the drawing at the time? Is it an absent-minded thing? Is it an intentional thing, or using it explicitly as a tool versus kind of capturing what pops up for you? I love in all scenarios, there's a presencing effect to it, and there's a really being aware of what's going on, and that you're drawing is kind of inviting. It's hard to focus on other things when it's this sense of really being there with the person in that space. But thinking about, do I draw? Am I inviting them to draw? I say, "Hey, let's both draw this. This is crazy. Let me try to capture this." You were speaking, I drew this. What do you make of it? How do you put this into practice in a conversation?

Wendi Pillars 00:27:05

Okay. So definitely, you nailed it. The drawing should definitely serve presence and not compete with it. Oh my gosh. Okay, Stephanie just loaded a sketch in there. That was from a panel of speakers. But yeah, I think that it should definitely serve the presence and not compete with it, like when you're listening and different patterns emerge, et cetera. But I would say it depends on the relationship with that client. I would be forthcoming. I say, "Hey, as I take notes, I'll also be sketching a little bit, and I will ask for your input." So I just tell them straight up front, "This is who I am, this is how I work." And I've never had an issue with that, and they're actually really curious. They're like, "Oh, I see. How'd you represent that?" But I would put the pen down in a couple of situations. If the client becomes really emotionally vulnerable, I would definitely just stop and be present. Eye contact and full attention matter more than documentation at some points. I also feel that if the client has a certain momentum going, I might kind of ease back on the drawing because maybe they want, I don't know, that momentum. Again, it goes with that eye contact. And another one is if you are working so hard to get the right drawing and you kind of stop listening, then that's a big red flag, too. But I know that if, And the last thing I would say about that is if the visual starts becoming your performance. You never want it to become your performance because, again, you're doing this in service to the client, and you want this to serve their ideas and represent their thinking. So it should not reflect your abilities or your performance. And again, I think you don't want to produce a beautiful transcript with doodles on it. You want to notice what deserves to actually become visible. And I think you can also ask permission. You say, "Hey, I've noticed that you've used that phrase several times. Would you mind if I captured it?" And I think that protects the trust and then makes that visual a little more collaborative, too.

Michael Balchan 00:29:32

Yeah, I think- Yeah, just hearing that when it's in service of understanding- Mm-hmm ... are you really trying to see the world as they're seeing it, right? And it's a way of triangulating around the words that are being used, and is this what you mean? And whether you're doing the drawing or they're doing the drawing, it's that shared understanding and then that forward motion, right? Okay, so once we're kind of aligned or close to the same page on what we're talking about here, how do we want to move forward then? It's that tool for understanding the future possibilities. What actions might we be taking yet? And it is never the end in and of itself, right? It is a means to create that sense of greater connection, get greater understanding, and then forward motion.

Wendi Pillars 00:30:22

It's a tool. Yeah, it is absolutely a tool, but it has been invaluable for me. And I think another way, as you were talking, it made me think of another way that I've used this is at the end of a session. Maybe I don't draw during a session, but maybe at the end, we take time and we summarize it together in a visual way. Like, "Okay, you came in today, here's how you were feeling." It could be as simple, again, as an emoji or a smiley face. You came in with frustration, maybe your fists are balled. And then here's what you told me, here's what I heard. Is this correct? And then it kind of feeds it back to them so that they can hear it again through another perspective. And it helps to clarify, too, by doing that. So yeah.

Michael Balchan 00:31:16

And so I got a couple of visuals as you were communicating there. One of which was coaching so often, there's these tools we can use. There's the intellectual frameworks. There's a lot of that logic and reasoning that can come into it that's incredibly valuable. There's also the embodied, and a lot of the work is trying to help not just live in the head, but actually get stuff into the body and the emotional processing and all the pieces that come along with that. And the use of visuals, to me, is another just angle or perspective on the experience. And doesn't matter what we're drawing, doesn't matter the shape of it, but just having this, it doesn't matter what you're feeling. Let's just build that capacity to be more in tune to what's going on. And it's- Expand the perspective of how our minds are communicating, thinking, sharing, et cetera. Not the mind as brain, but the broader being of mind, and having a different conduit for that to happen that I feel like is so valuable. And then in addition to that, there's a give playfulness and joy and I don't know how many people might say that the last time they drew was fifth grade or third grade, or in this part- Yeah ... you said the kids drawing these big, but as we get older, we draw much, much smaller. And yet what a powerful tool it is for trying to solve problems and think collaboratively and all those things. I just saw that the, your whiteboarding, you're a leader, a C-suite, whatever it is, an organization, getting up on the whiteboard and just sketching. And there's a messiness and there's an imperfection, but there's also just this playfulness and joy and the what we're working on together, and what we're trying to solve together, is more important than the tools that we're using to try and solve that problem. And I'm okay with it being imperfect and messy and all those things because I'm more committed to trying to move this thing forward.

Wendi Pillars 00:33:11

And that's, again, it goes back to that permission piece. Yeah. Because once you just say, "Okay, it's not going to be perfect," when I go up to the whiteboard, like you said, especially in a C-suite, people are like, "What are you doing?" But I have been hired by big companies and organizations to come and capture their discussions and what they talk about. And then they use that as a shared reference piece. Later they'll share it out in newsletters or they'll refer back to it in subsequent meetings. So it has value. Whether or not they're willing to actually do the drawing is a different story, but just giving it a try. Please just try it. Get curious about it, right? I think one of the things that comes up, too, is when you're coaching, and this comes from science field work, too, you can't just look for evidence that confirms a story that you already believe. Right? You're listening for something a little bit more. You think you might recognize a pattern, but your client's context may definitely complicate that. So stepping back and observing and getting curious and then naming it later is important. It's a good discipline. I think it is.

Michael Balchan 00:34:36

Yeah. And again, the importance of drawing the picture- Mm-hmm ... is not to get the right picture, right? And I love even looking at someone put in the chat, like one of your years at Loyola panel, just this beautiful capturing of all these incredible ideas and the power. And it's like, "Oh my gosh, that's so amazing." But in a client session or when working with somebody one-on-one or as a group collaborative brainstorm, it's not getting the right picture. It's getting something and then working on it together and using it as a, "Did I get that right? What would you change? How do we shift it?" And that willingness to be wrong-

Wendi Pillars 00:35:15

Right

Michael Balchan 00:35:15

... but go forward and to have these different tools is so powerful.

Wendi Pillars 00:35:20

But it's actually really cool, and I mentioned it earlier, but the focus is no longer on the person. So Michael, you and I could be drawing on the whiteboard, and I get something completely wrong or something is off according to your thinking, and you're pointing at the drawing. You're not talking to me and saying that I'm wrong. You're saying, "No, this representation isn't correct." And that shifts the dynamics, too, in a beautiful way. So yeah, I think it's worth giving it a shot.

Michael Balchan 00:35:57

Yeah. It reminds me of the in the coaching excellence, in coaching in general, we talk about in our coaching excellence curriculum around the coaching relationship, right in that triangle. There's the coach, and there's the coach, and there's a relationship which exists to kind of serve the client, and it's that ability to create this distinct, separate thing that's not me, that's not you, that's what we're working on together. And to have our attention in that thing and invested in that thing that ultimately, again, is for the client. It's not for the Instagram, it's not for the Louvre. It's in service of whatever that goal is that you're there together to help move forward.

Wendi Pillars 00:36:34

Yeah. That's a perfect connection. Yep. And that's another visual, too, right? That triangle, it helps you remember what it is, right? Like Maslow's hierarchy. That was never written in a triangle. Somebody put it in an image and now it's indisputable, right? You can't do Maslow's hierarchy without a triangle visual, so.

Michael Balchan 00:36:58

Forever linked. We've covered a ton. I know we got a lot of folks here. We've got around 15 or so minutes left, so if you are with us here and something sparked your interest, something resonated with you, something struck you deeply, or something came up that you're like, "I wonder how I might use this," or, "I'm curious about how to actually apply this or there's a situation in my life," think about that and then take a moment, and when you're ready, if you're willing to raise your hand, come on, connect with Wendi, get some feedback coaching from her. You're going to want to make the rest of this time really valuable, and that happens when you are willing to take it and actually apply it and help us shape in real time. And I know we've got one, but while other folks think about that and have the courage to engage if they've got that, hit Wendi. Where can folks go to learn more about you, connect with you, follow your work, go deeper into this process?

Wendi Pillars 00:37:55

I do have a couple of books. These are available on Amazon. This one is Visual Impact, and it was my second book. Every two pages, you have text and then a full-page visual. That visual shows how to take the text and translate it into an image, so it complements or supplements the text. This book grew out of workshops and the questions people kept asking. It covers topics from A to Z and includes examples and testimonials from the field. I'm really proud of it. It was a work of heart. This was my first book. It's tiny, but it has a lot more text. It includes student examples and digs into the neuroscience behind the value of visuals. I'd been teaching a long time and wanted to understand how the brain works, because we don't really learn that when we're learning to teach. I also wrote a children's book that came out this past year. It's about a girl who travels to Antarctica and learns science while making sketches in her field notebook. The book includes examples of her sketches. So this is like who I am. You can find the books on Amazon. I also have an Instagram account called Sketch More, Think More, because my mantra is: when you sketch more, you think more. You can see examples of my work there too.

Michael Balchan 00:40:44

Beautiful. Jo, welcome.

Jo Newman 00:40:48

Thank you. And Wendi, what you just shared, actually, I don't think I did that last exercise right, but the interesting thing was that as I was drawing it, it really got me thinking more about it. So I just appreciated the opportunity to actually put everything that you'd said into practice, and it really did land for me. But my question was whether you've ever used a Zoom whiteboard to capture notes, because I'm trying to think the same way as the idea of drawing or writing during a coaching session feels like I'm pulling away from the presence.

Wendi Pillars 00:41:26

Yeah.

Jo Newman 00:41:26

But I then thought it'd be a lot of fun, and certainly we used to use it on Zoom. I'm a former teacher.

Wendi Pillars 00:41:32

Okay.

Jo Newman 00:41:32

And so we used the whiteboards, and the kids loved drawing and stuff.

Wendi Pillars 00:41:36

Yeah.

Jo Newman 00:41:36

So I was just wondering if you've ever used it and whether it would be distracting or any tips on how to use it effectively if you have used it.

Wendi Pillars 00:41:43

Yes, so I have an iPad as well, so I can log into Zoom via my iPad, and I can do the drawing or the visual note-taking in real time. So that can help in when I'm working with a client. But I've also got a little document camera that I can connect to and do it just on paper with a flare pen or marker. So yeah. And I think that definitely helps. We're always clarifying, like, "Is this what you mean?" Or whatever. But a lot of times I will just be open and upfront with a client and say, "Is this okay?"

Jo Newman 00:42:24

Yeah.

Wendi Pillars 00:42:25

But yeah.

Jo Newman 00:42:25

Thank you.

Michael Balchan 00:42:33

Who else? Who is like, "This all sounds amazing, and I don't know if I'm going to use it with a client"? If that's you, I'd love to hear from you. And everyone might be like, "No, I'm stoked. I'm taking this to the boardroom tomorrow." Julia's got her hand up.

Julia Hsia 00:42:57

Yeah. I can't find a hand emoji, but hello.

Wendi Pillars 00:43:03

Hi.

Julia Hsia 00:43:03

I'm so excited about what you just shared.

Wendi Pillars 00:43:06

Oh my goodness. Great. That's so-

Julia Hsia 00:43:07

On Sundays, I teach Chinese Mandarin at two different schools.

Wendi Pillars 00:43:13

Okay.

Julia Hsia 00:43:13

These are American-born second generation or third generation children of parents that may be first generation or even second generation. And they're not that crazy about learning the language because it's not easy, and they don't speak it at home really. Maybe some of them do. But my afternoon students this year, I have four girls and one boy. They're fifth graders, so their age is all 10. They all love to draw. Mm-hmm. So during our 10-minute break, they love to come up to the whiteboard and doodle and draw these elaborate pictures. So I have this idea of incorporating the phrases and vocabulary that we are learning, or even a story that we're learning about, and ask them to draw a picture, or I may even start to draw and connect with them. So I'm really excited about this.

Wendi Pillars 00:44:08

Well, I'm glad to hear that. That's a perfect way to do it. Yes. Yes.

Julia Hsia 00:44:13

Thank you so much.

Wendi Pillars 00:44:14

Yeah.

Julia Hsia 00:44:14

And then I'll check out your books as well.

Wendi Pillars 00:44:17

All right. Well, let me know how it goes.

Julia Hsia 00:44:19

I definitely will. I'll connect with you on Instagram.

Wendi Pillars 00:44:22

Thank you.

Julia Hsia 00:44:22

Thank you. Thank you, Michael.

Michael Balchan 00:44:25

I turned off the camera to step away because I have a book and flashcards for learning Mandarin in pictures. Oh, my gosh. It's called "Chinesey." It's not my book. I bought it because I was like, "I want to learn some Mandarin," but it's called "Chinesey," and the book is like, "This character represents this," so it actually draws that house or a person bending over or a plant in the ground, whatever it is, and there's also flashcards for it, so that might be a good resource for you.

Julia Hsia 00:44:59

"Chinesey." Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's great.

Michael Balchan 00:45:05

I think I put it in the other, in the travel stuff. But I ask that question because there can be a pattern or process when we're coaching. We like to feel comfortable, right? We like to feel like, "I'm good and I'm creating a sense with my client," and something like a visual, trying, as much as we've talked about just getting in there and give it a go and those kinds of things, is new and is a new thing. They want to make sure we want to do a good job. And so I think it is such a powerful tool, and when I ask if anyone's feeling that resistance, I think it'd be valuable for us to look at that and use it as an opportunity to either shift it or learn together, or also just recognize different tools work for different people, and it's not like you have to go use this. But anyway, that was the intention behind the question.

Wendi Pillars 00:46:01

No, I think that's a perfect thing. You're not going to need to use it every single time, but even one little sketch. We always start with 100%, right?

Michael Balchan 00:46:14

Yeah. Jo, I saw the hand up again.

Jo Newman 00:46:17

I'm so sorry. Just two things. One was Julia's idea of bringing it to the students, and my kids, we used to do storytelling, and I always had a kid who would come up to the board and would draw the story. And so that connects with what Michael was saying because I was like, "I love doing it. I highly recommend it. It was so awesome." One of the questions I had as you were speaking, Wendi, is not how do you encourage people to come up and do it. It's like how did you manage to decide who gets to draw that day, because my students were always like everybody wanted to do it. But the reason I raised my hand again was because I would be very hesitant. I'm very comfortable with the kids coming up and doing the drawing, but in a coaching session, my thought had been, I think I need to practice this a lot outside of a coaching session before I would be able to actually use it with a client. So don't have an answer, just hesitation, and know that I need to experiment a lot or find a safe space.

Wendi Pillars 00:47:17

I think it's natural to feel that hesitation, right? Like I said, it is who I am, so people know me for that, so I think I have an easier entryway to using it in a coaching session. But I would ask permission, say, "Hey, I'm trying this new thing out. The goal is for me to be more present with you and to represent what you're telling me and sharing with me, and maybe take it from there. I would like for you to collaborate with me, and every once in a while I might ask you to represent your thinking as well." Just be as transparent as you can. But I know that's hard, especially if it's a brand-new client, so maybe it's the second or third session that you're meeting with them. Or what I've also done is afterwards I'll create a quick little basic summary, and I will bring that to the next session and say, "Hey, this is how I interpreted this." So I don't do it in the moment, but I would do it afterwards and share it with them and say, "Hey, tell me about what I captured last week. Does this resonate with you?" Right? You can push it back on them to interpret it too.

Jo Newman 00:48:35

Yeah.

Wendi Pillars 00:48:35

So I like that there's no one particular way to do it. Mm-hmm. But yeah, if you try, just try one little part and one little piece.

Jo Newman 00:48:45

Yeah. I definitely felt comfortable thinking it'd be very cool to have the person I'm working with to draw it out. Yeah. But listening to you, I was like, well, then I should also have the guts to try it out myself, right? If I'm going to ask them, I need to-

Wendi Pillars 00:49:00

Yeah. Give it a go

Jo Newman 00:49:00

... as well, so. Thank you. Sorry for multiple questions.

Wendi Pillars 00:49:04

Yeah. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

Michael Balchan 00:49:07

No, it was brilliant and pertinent. I go back to that permission and encouragement, right? And so much of the coaching relationship is giving that permission, and so much of that is demonstrated by a willingness to not need to have the right question or the right answer, the right thing, but just to show up and bring what we have. Hans, what's up? Good to see you again.

Hans Hageman 00:49:30

Thank you, sir. Good to see you. Thank you, Wendi. I'm picking up the book right after this.

Wendi Pillars 00:49:34

Oh, thank you.

Hans Hageman 00:49:35

I'd love some feedback on whether you think this is a crazy idea or not. In my youth work, I do a lot of youth work in prison and elsewhere, doing a pre-assessment using these tools, and then a post-assessment, and then bringing it to funders. And again, keeping the names off of the drawings and stuff that the kids are doing, but how does that hit with you?

Wendi Pillars 00:49:58

I think, yeah, pre- and post-assessments are always valuable. But do you mean for funders for-

Hans Hageman 00:50:06

So foundations. I've run into foundations where people want something other than just the regular metrics and KPIs and other things, and I think this would be just something that's off the beaten path that might grab their attention, and in a very obviously very visual way.

Wendi Pillars 00:50:24

Yeah. And you're talking about older ones that are adjudicated or like-

Hans Hageman 00:50:30

Well, yeah, anywhere from 14 to 18.

Wendi Pillars 00:50:33

Okay. So yeah, so the same age as my kids, then. Okay. Yeah. I think that would be really cool. That's a really good idea because I've used a couple of the visuals just to present as feedback.

Wendi Pillars 00:50:46

I write just grants too, basic school-based grants, and some of that gets played into the feedback that I send to the grant givers.

Hans Hageman 00:50:58

Okay.

Wendi Pillars 00:50:58

And they really like it because there's different personalities in there.

Hans Hageman 00:51:01

Yes.

Wendi Pillars 00:51:02

They come up with really cool little insights into what their thinking was, and if you gave them the option to do that, I think, yeah, definitely from in my experience, the grantors- Mm-hmm ... are appreciative of that because it's not boring to read.

Hans Hageman 00:51:19

Right. Exactly.

Wendi Pillars 00:51:21

That's so cool.

Hans Hageman 00:51:21

Thank you. Yeah, okay.

Wendi Pillars 00:51:23

Yeah. Definitely. Oh my gosh, good luck. Yeah.

Hans Hageman 00:51:25

Appreciate it.

Wendi Pillars 00:51:26

Reach out if you need any ideas.

Hans Hageman 00:51:28

Will do.

Michael Balchan 00:51:29

Yeah, Hans, if you send me or Sonia your email address, we can make sure the two of you are connected too.

Hans Hageman 00:51:36

Okay, great. That'd be wonderful.

Michael Balchan 00:51:38

Yeah.

Wendi Pillars 00:51:40

Collaborate.

Michael Balchan 00:51:41

Yeah. Wendi, last question for you. What's one thing we can do for you? Spread some ripples out, something we can do as individuals, as a community, create some change that you're excited to see.

Wendi Pillars 00:51:53

Gosh, I don't know. I think to be grateful for the opportunity to have people to work with is one thing, so don't forget to be grateful. And then number two, give this a chance. Get a sticky note and something to write with and encourage yourself to make one sketch before you go to bed tonight about something that you hear or a conversation that you have, and then see if you can add to your sticky note collection.

Michael Balchan 00:52:22

Beautiful.

Wendi Pillars 00:52:23

Yeah.

Michael Balchan 00:52:23

I appreciate you. I know we haven't actually shared more broadly, but Wendi's work's going to be posterized and for the Coach program, so folks will be able to download your notes on the content there, so everyone who's gone through Coach will be able to see those, and I'm sure their frameworks and their memories and what they take away from it will be improved as a result of that. So, I'm just so-

Wendi Pillars 00:52:50

They are rough drafts, so they are not-

Michael Balchan 00:52:52

Yeah, but the beautiful first draft, and just your generosity over the last several years and sharing your work with the community. I know it's been so impactful. I know some folks shared it, but really got a lot out today too, and I'm excited to have this as a quiver in my arsenal, and I just appreciate you and the work that you're doing. So thank you for sharing it with the community. Thanks for bringing this forward and fired up to see what's ahead.

Wendi Pillars 00:53:19

Awesome. Thank you guys for spending the time with us today.